Encourage Stack Overflow instead of this list?

Community Support
1

Hi all,

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It's not that I don't intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.

If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.

Thanks,

Bryan

2

Hi,

···

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Bryan Van de ven [email protected] wrote:

Hi all,

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It’s not that I don’t intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.

If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.

I would prefer having a separate issue tracker on github for questions and discussions. It supports all features listed above and has the added benefit of being integrated into the ecosystem we already use and know very well. This would also imply much stricter policy on what gets into the main issue tracker, allowing us to have much smaller number of open issues and much healthier issue tracker in general.

Mateusz

Thanks,

Bryan

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3

I should also add, lest I am remiss: There have recently be more people answering questions here, and I am truly thankful and grateful when I see issues resolved by others. It's only that I believe SO will offer an even greater opportunity for participation.

Thanks,

Bryan

···

On Sep 28, 2017, at 08:15, Bryan Van de ven <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It's not that I don't intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.

If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.

Thanks,

Bryan

4

I definitely see the logic behind this idea, and there are definitely things I *don't* like at all about SO, but I overall do think SO has important advantages:

* SO is common and ubiquitous and better indexed. New and casual users are almost certainly much more likely to stumble on to SO than they are to some random extra tracker off the main repo

* More importantly, Bokeh questions on SO won't go away no matter what we do, so encouraging a different support venue means accepting multiple support venues. (Cue sounds of resignation)

* For better or worse, people measure SO activity as a proxy for project success, popularity and usage. Having more Bokeh activity on SO may provide useful in some contexts. That is not a primary motivator to me, but I think that secondary benefits are worth not-ignoring.

* For some, the gamified nature of SO provides encouragement and inducement to participate

* Purely personally, I find the SO UI interface more pleasant an I'd much rather stare at that than even more GH UI (tho I'd certainly look past this if I thought benefits otherwise outweighed)

Bryan

···

On Sep 28, 2017, at 08:35, Mateusz Paprocki <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Bryan Van de ven <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It's not that I don't intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.

If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.

I would prefer having a separate issue tracker on github for questions and discussions. It supports all features listed above and has the added benefit of being integrated into the ecosystem we already use and know very well. This would also imply much stricter policy on what gets into the main issue tracker, allowing us to have much smaller number of open issues and much healthier issue tracker in general.

Mateusz

Thanks,

Bryan

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5

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow

That would be great! For all the reasons you mentioned.

My two cents

  • Right now the only Bokeh tag on SO is Bokeh - And Bokeh changes quickly (good).
···

That means doing X on version 12.1 can be different than 12.7 - And as such needs a different answer. I think it is imperative that when posting or answering that we state the bokeh version. SO users for with a reputation of 1500+ can add the bokeh version as a tag.

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:01:22 AM UTC-5, Bryan Van de ven wrote:

I definitely see the logic behind this idea, and there are definitely things I don’t like at all about SO, but I overall do think SO has important advantages:

  • SO is common and ubiquitous and better indexed. New and casual users are almost certainly much more likely to stumble on to SO than they are to some random extra tracker off the main repo

  • More importantly, Bokeh questions on SO won’t go away no matter what we do, so encouraging a different support venue means accepting multiple support venues. (Cue sounds of resignation)

  • For better or worse, people measure SO activity as a proxy for project success, popularity and usage. Having more Bokeh activity on SO may provide useful in some contexts. That is not a primary motivator to me, but I think that secondary benefits are worth not-ignoring.

  • For some, the gamified nature of SO provides encouragement and inducement to participate

  • Purely personally, I find the SO UI interface more pleasant an I’d much rather stare at that than even more GH UI (tho I’d certainly look past this if I thought benefits otherwise outweighed)

Bryan

On Sep 28, 2017, at 08:35, Mateusz Paprocki [email protected] wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Bryan Van de ven [email protected] wrote:

Hi all,

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It’s not that I don’t intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.

If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.

I would prefer having a separate issue tracker on github for questions and discussions. It supports all features listed above and has the added benefit of being integrated into the ecosystem we already use and know very well. This would also imply much stricter policy on what gets into the main issue tracker, allowing us to have much smaller number of open issues and much healthier issue tracker in general.

Mateusz

Thanks,

Bryan

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6

I think that would be great, too.
Regarding using Github - posts on SO caused by issues and missing features in Bokeh could be the source of new issues on Github.

Regards,

Eugene

···

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:55:37 PM UTC+7, Itay Livni wrote:

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow

That would be great! For all the reasons you mentioned.

My two cents

  • Right now the only Bokeh tag on SO is Bokeh - And Bokeh changes quickly (good).

That means doing X on version 12.1 can be different than 12.7 - And as such needs a different answer. I think it is imperative that when posting or answering that we state the bokeh version. SO users for with a reputation of 1500+ can add the bokeh version as a tag.

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:01:22 AM UTC-5, Bryan Van de ven wrote:

I definitely see the logic behind this idea, and there are definitely things I don’t like at all about SO, but I overall do think SO has important advantages:

  • SO is common and ubiquitous and better indexed. New and casual users are almost certainly much more likely to stumble on to SO than they are to some random extra tracker off the main repo

  • More importantly, Bokeh questions on SO won’t go away no matter what we do, so encouraging a different support venue means accepting multiple support venues. (Cue sounds of resignation)

  • For better or worse, people measure SO activity as a proxy for project success, popularity and usage. Having more Bokeh activity on SO may provide useful in some contexts. That is not a primary motivator to me, but I think that secondary benefits are worth not-ignoring.

  • For some, the gamified nature of SO provides encouragement and inducement to participate

  • Purely personally, I find the SO UI interface more pleasant an I’d much rather stare at that than even more GH UI (tho I’d certainly look past this if I thought benefits otherwise outweighed)

Bryan

On Sep 28, 2017, at 08:35, Mateusz Paprocki [email protected] wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Bryan Van de ven [email protected] wrote:

Hi all,

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It’s not that I don’t intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.

If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.

I would prefer having a separate issue tracker on github for questions and discussions. It supports all features listed above and has the added benefit of being integrated into the ecosystem we already use and know very well. This would also imply much stricter policy on what gets into the main issue tracker, allowing us to have much smaller number of open issues and much healthier issue tracker in general.

Mateusz

Thanks,

Bryan

–

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7

Good idea moving to SO - but no guarantee of higher answers’ probability as i am still waiting for my question to be answered (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46290307/bokeh-sever-with-nginx-gives-blank-white-screen) …but reaching out to this group at least was able to get Bryan’s attention :slight_smile:

thanks

Sebastian

···

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Eugene Pakhomov [email protected] wrote:

I think that would be great, too.
Regarding using Github - posts on SO caused by issues and missing features in Bokeh could be the source of new issues on Github.

Regards,

Eugene

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:55:37 PM UTC+7, Itay Livni wrote:

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow

That would be great! For all the reasons you mentioned.

My two cents

  • Right now the only Bokeh tag on SO is Bokeh - And Bokeh changes quickly (good).

That means doing X on version 12.1 can be different than 12.7 - And as such needs a different answer. I think it is imperative that when posting or answering that we state the bokeh version. SO users for with a reputation of 1500+ can add the bokeh version as a tag.

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:01:22 AM UTC-5, Bryan Van de ven wrote:

I definitely see the logic behind this idea, and there are definitely things I don’t like at all about SO, but I overall do think SO has important advantages:

  • SO is common and ubiquitous and better indexed. New and casual users are almost certainly much more likely to stumble on to SO than they are to some random extra tracker off the main repo

  • More importantly, Bokeh questions on SO won’t go away no matter what we do, so encouraging a different support venue means accepting multiple support venues. (Cue sounds of resignation)

  • For better or worse, people measure SO activity as a proxy for project success, popularity and usage. Having more Bokeh activity on SO may provide useful in some contexts. That is not a primary motivator to me, but I think that secondary benefits are worth not-ignoring.

  • For some, the gamified nature of SO provides encouragement and inducement to participate

  • Purely personally, I find the SO UI interface more pleasant an I’d much rather stare at that than even more GH UI (tho I’d certainly look past this if I thought benefits otherwise outweighed)

Bryan

On Sep 28, 2017, at 08:35, Mateusz Paprocki [email protected] wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Bryan Van de ven [email protected] wrote:

Hi all,

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It’s not that I don’t intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.

If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.

I would prefer having a separate issue tracker on github for questions and discussions. It supports all features listed above and has the added benefit of being integrated into the ecosystem we already use and know very well. This would also imply much stricter policy on what gets into the main issue tracker, allowing us to have much smaller number of open issues and much healthier issue tracker in general.

Mateusz

Thanks,

Bryan

–

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Sebastian Maurice, PhD

Mobile: 403-612-5443

8

Hm. Yea its a bit difficult since its good to see the higher end non trivial issues here where you and the other devs chime in.

However, I think for the easier stuff and simple how-to questions, those should be posted on SO now that Bokeh is reaching a more mature state.

Maybe hold off until its big 1.0 release and subsequent minor bug fixes?

···

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:43 AM, Sebastian Maurice [email protected] wrote:

Good idea moving to SO - but no guarantee of higher answers’ probability as i am still waiting for my question to be answered (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46290307/bokeh-sever-with-nginx-gives-blank-white-screen) …but reaching out to this group at least was able to get Bryan’s attention :slight_smile:

thanks

Sebastian

–

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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/a/continuum.io/d/optout.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Eugene Pakhomov [email protected] wrote:

I think that would be great, too.
Regarding using Github - posts on SO caused by issues and missing features in Bokeh could be the source of new issues on Github.

Regards,

Eugene

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:55:37 PM UTC+7, Itay Livni wrote:

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow

That would be great! For all the reasons you mentioned.

My two cents

  • Right now the only Bokeh tag on SO is Bokeh - And Bokeh changes quickly (good).

That means doing X on version 12.1 can be different than 12.7 - And as such needs a different answer. I think it is imperative that when posting or answering that we state the bokeh version. SO users for with a reputation of 1500+ can add the bokeh version as a tag.

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:01:22 AM UTC-5, Bryan Van de ven wrote:

I definitely see the logic behind this idea, and there are definitely things I don’t like at all about SO, but I overall do think SO has important advantages:

  • SO is common and ubiquitous and better indexed. New and casual users are almost certainly much more likely to stumble on to SO than they are to some random extra tracker off the main repo

  • More importantly, Bokeh questions on SO won’t go away no matter what we do, so encouraging a different support venue means accepting multiple support venues. (Cue sounds of resignation)

  • For better or worse, people measure SO activity as a proxy for project success, popularity and usage. Having more Bokeh activity on SO may provide useful in some contexts. That is not a primary motivator to me, but I think that secondary benefits are worth not-ignoring.

  • For some, the gamified nature of SO provides encouragement and inducement to participate

  • Purely personally, I find the SO UI interface more pleasant an I’d much rather stare at that than even more GH UI (tho I’d certainly look past this if I thought benefits otherwise outweighed)

Bryan

On Sep 28, 2017, at 08:35, Mateusz Paprocki [email protected] wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Bryan Van de ven [email protected] wrote:

Hi all,

I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It’s not that I don’t intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.

If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.

I would prefer having a separate issue tracker on github for questions and discussions. It supports all features listed above and has the added benefit of being integrated into the ecosystem we already use and know very well. This would also imply much stricter policy on what gets into the main issue tracker, allowing us to have much smaller number of open issues and much healthier issue tracker in general.

Mateusz

Thanks,

Bryan

–

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Sebastian Maurice, PhD

Mobile: 403-612-5443

9

Thanks for the input. Just in terms of my personal well-being, I don't think this can be postponed the few months it will be until there is 1.0 released. As for changes, I've already started making the PRs to lock APIs down under test, so I think it's better (at this point) to just have the single bokeh tag, and go back an update old answers as feasible.

Thanks,

Bryan

···

On Sep 29, 2017, at 03:51, 'Corey O'Meara' via Bokeh Discussion - Public <[email protected]> wrote:

Hm. Yea its a bit difficult since its good to see the higher end non trivial issues here where you and the other devs chime in.

However, I think for the easier stuff and simple how-to questions, those should be posted on SO now that Bokeh is reaching a more mature state.

Maybe hold off until its big 1.0 release and subsequent minor bug fixes?

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:43 AM, Sebastian Maurice <[email protected]> wrote:
Good idea moving to SO - but no guarantee of higher answers' probability as i am still waiting for my question to be answered (Bokeh Sever with NGINX gives Blank white screen - Stack Overflow) ....but reaching out to this group at least was able to get Bryan's attention :slight_smile:

thanks
Sebastian

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Eugene Pakhomov <[email protected]> wrote:
I think that would be great, too.
Regarding using Github - posts on SO caused by issues and missing features in Bokeh could be the source of new issues on Github.

Regards,
Eugene

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:55:37 PM UTC+7, Itay Livni wrote:
I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow

That would be great! For all the reasons you mentioned.
My two cents
  • Right now the only Bokeh tag on SO is `Bokeh` - And Bokeh changes quickly (good).
That means doing X on version 12.1 can be different than 12.7 - And as such needs a different answer. I think it is imperative that when posting or answering that we state the bokeh version. SO users for with a reputation of 1500+ can add the bokeh version as a tag.

On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:01:22 AM UTC-5, Bryan Van de ven wrote:
I definitely see the logic behind this idea, and there are definitely things I *don't* like at all about SO, but I overall do think SO has important advantages:

* SO is common and ubiquitous and better indexed. New and casual users are almost certainly much more likely to stumble on to SO than they are to some random extra tracker off the main repo

* More importantly, Bokeh questions on SO won't go away no matter what we do, so encouraging a different support venue means accepting multiple support venues. (Cue sounds of resignation)

* For better or worse, people measure SO activity as a proxy for project success, popularity and usage. Having more Bokeh activity on SO may provide useful in some contexts. That is not a primary motivator to me, but I think that secondary benefits are worth not-ignoring.

* For some, the gamified nature of SO provides encouragement and inducement to participate

* Purely personally, I find the SO UI interface more pleasant an I'd much rather stare at that than even more GH UI (tho I'd certainly look past this if I thought benefits otherwise outweighed)

Bryan

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 08:35, Mateusz Paprocki <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Bryan Van de ven <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am considering the idea of phasing out this list, and shunting future questions here to Stack Overflow. As evidenced by the many unanswered posts piling up, the general support burden here has far eclipsed my personal human ability to keep up. Lately there seem to more people there answering questions on Stack Overflow, and there are some incidental pluses like better searching, code formatting, and attachment options (in fact, perhaps the former is correlated with the latter). It's not that I don't intend to continue helping answer questions when I can, but realistically, the only sustainable way forward is to find ways to make it easier and more accessible for more individuals to share the load.
>
> If anyone has specific thoughts, comments, or different ideas besides SO that they would like to suggest, please chime in here.
>
> I would prefer having a separate issue tracker on github for questions and discussions. It supports all features listed above and has the added benefit of being integrated into the ecosystem we already use and know very well. This would also imply much stricter policy on what gets into the main issue tracker, allowing us to have much smaller number of open issues and much healthier issue tracker in general.
>
> Mateusz
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bryan
>
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